Ambiophonics vs Stereo
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Make your stereo to sound like 3D audio
Dr. Ralph Glasgal
Auroral Physicist, one of the scientists at Wilkes Station in 1957.
Ralph Glasgal of the Ambiophonics.org Institute tirelessly guided me through the process for almost a decade.
3D sound from ordinary stereo using Ambiophonics method
AES papers and complete guide at www.ambiophonics.org
For missing links, email st.chelvam@gmail.com
"You don't need expensive equipment for that!"
3D audio is all about making your system to sound like the real event in your room. There are solutions like BACCH, ARIA 3D, SoundPimp, Polk SDA Speakers and others that you can use to experience 3D audio from your existing stereo format. Ambiophonics is a method that you can do it for free. It can be incorporated to JRiver or any other media player that could host the plugin. Alternatively, you can just use a physical divider to enjoy the 3D with any form of DSPs.
GO AHEAD AND TAKE A LOOK AT MY AUDIOPHILE JOURNEY TO ACHIEVE PERFECTION IN PLAYBACK.
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A short video to explain headphones and loudspeakers difference. WIP.
MY JOURNEY
[ in reverse chronological order ]
Sunday
23 July 2023
In a recent interaction in Audiophilestyle forum with user describing BACCH sound perception, I thought maybe the crosstalk cancellation could be improved further. I deliberately made different setting to produce a wider stage like BACCH but realized it introduces slight phasiness feel so I decided a different approach and with blind testing with stereo playback I decided the current setting is preferable compared to the previous. The difference is so slight and you need to point out the difference to know it. Anyway, here is a comparison to another video made 2 years ago.
Friday
The new Motu 8A with its new Sabre chip sounded very good. Overall happy with the sound quality.
24 March 2023
Monday
The new Motu 8A with its new Sabre chip sounded very good. Overall happy with the sound quality.
25 April 2022
Saturday
29 January 2022
My multichannel DAC died. Motu refused to repair since it is out warranty. The warranty was for 2 years but my unit is 3 plus. I am unable to order Motu from the local distributor because of chip shortage Motu unable to confirm when they will able to supply which leaving me no choice but to look for a substitute. I settled to one of my old DAC which I used before moving on to proaudio. The old 16/48000KHz Fx Audio with only RCA output now serving me until I get back the Motu.
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Interestingly, I compared that with another system with a $26000 DAC and honestly with Ambiophonics I doubt anyone would want to spend so much for the dCS. You be the judge.
Saturday
11 Dec 2021
came across Joe N Tell's binaural audio video of system that is supposedly worth $100K which was from a dealer's demo room.. This can be useful for further improvement of our own system. Here are the two videos for comparison.
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Here is a listener''s experience.
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Use headphones. Recorded with DPA 4560 binuaral microphones.
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Friday
30 July 2021
Continuing with experiment to choose the cheapest and reliable amps to drive the 30 ambiance speakers to recreate of the correct ambiance . This is the most accurate way to treat the room acoustics and create the envelopment and spaciousness that sounds better than multi channel format.
Here is a listener''s experience.
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Use headphones. Recorded with DPA 4560 binuaral microphones.
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Thursday
15 July 2021
Finally found another HiFi playback that was recorded with DPA 4560 binaural mics. I am not sure why the volume his higher in the studio recording because the recording will be normalized automatically unless the studio sound peaks is not high as mine which when normalized will give overall higher loudness level. Otherwise, I have no idea why his level is higher. Usually, we tend to prefer higher volume as better sound.
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Anyway, if you pay attention to the spatial feel and clarity, you should able to sense the difference. I think this is a fair apple to apple comparison. Please use headphones. For this recordings my domestic concert hall 30 speakers were turned off.
Saturday
29th May 2021
One of the most difficult aspect for me is to set the rear Ambio. Since I do not have the space nor the budget for the exact pairs of loudspeakers like my front Sound Lab Electrostatics, I had some difficulties to time align and match the tonal difference between the rear and front speakers. It is now correctly set and giving me much more 3D feel. Something you need to experience. Here is a listener's view.
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One of the oldies which came out nice with all 32 speakers and just two. Use headphones. Audio sample. Will upload other tracks that are familiar to audiophiles later.
Sunday
23rd May 2021
This 1:44 minute long video shows how I incorporated the Domestic Concert Hall concept using Reaper. Technically what I could do now would be quite impossible a few years back because you do need a powerful CPU if you want to utilize all the reverbs. I still think some improvement could be made with a little ceiling and frontal reflection to add depth to the performance. Although in theory I could add close to 200 channels but with USB output at 96kHz the max I could achieve is limited to 32 channels. It is possible using a more complex method and multiple PCs but with such a small room and limited resources I doubt if I could ever fulfill my dream of full 120 channels. Only time will tell.
Saturday
15th May 2021
Moving on to the domestic concert hall settings. Attempting to get nice drum attack by playing with the artificial room ambiance.
Sunday
2nd May 2021
After a long search I finally bumped into binaural recordings made with the Neumann KU100. I hope this videos will convince you that Ambiophonics can improve your stereo sound irrespective of the price.
$8000 Nuemann KU100
$1100 DPA 4560
Sunday
18th April 2021
I have probably chasing ghost for several years due to the microphone coloration which made it impossible to judge the tonal accuracy of the crosstalk cancellation. Thanks to the DPA 4560 binaural mics I am now able to judge the sound better. Here is the latest video comparing the three mics. Can you guess which clip is the DPA 4560? Next video will be sound with two speakers and additional 30 virtual ambiance speakers using Magnificat of 2L as the reference. Don't forget to read about Ambiophonics to improve your system for free.
Thursday
8th April 2021
Waiting for DPA binaural mics. Meanwhile, done some reference tracks to be compared with the DPA. The latest videos can be found at https://www.facebook.com/chelvam.st.98 . More will be added here soon. Meanwhile, please visit www.ambiophonics.org to learn more about this simple setup that can transform your stereo to sound like binaural.
Friday
Tried the cancellation again using stereo vocal. Sounds more natural to my ears.
11th December 2020
Thursday
12 November 2020
After many trials and errors I decided to do cancellation utilizing Ralph's ping pong effect guide. The result is better than Ambiophonicsdsp. There is still some tonal difference which can be matched to sound like what the iphone recording sounds like but the sound is very dull when listening to the speakers compared to the Sennheiser or Roland binaural mics. I am still lost if the pinna correction filter should applied or not to the binaural recording.
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Anyway, this is a direct comparison with two different mics. No whatsoever processing except for normalization and level matching using Audacity.
Friday
18th September 2020
I decided to re-look at AmbiophonicsDSP . I think the manual needs to emphasize that the "Space" function should be set at 10 when you adjust the delay and attenuation. Will be posting new videos with more complex cancellation soon.
Anyway, here is a write-up visit by a skeptic. Full post can be found at https://www.facebook.com/groups/2178919215729602/user/100000628775283 which a private group and I do not know how to share it here.
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The contents reposted here in full.
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MY FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH 3D SOUND FROM ONE PAIR OF SPEAKERS
I got invited by Chelvam to listen to his audio system and I thought that the invitation was due to my asking him too many questions at one of his post in Hifi Talk Malaysia. I noticed that his recording of the video was amazingly good as I was amazed by the clarity and the presence of the bass when I played back his video on my HT system. The many questions I threw at him were because I could learn from him some tricks of good recording.
Frankly speaking, I accepted the invitation because I wanted more to learn about good recording rather than to learn and discuss on Ambiophonics, the topic which I knew nothing. Chelvam, as many of us know, is a strong supporter of Ambiophonics, having written many articles on this topic. As for me, I had often thought that Ambiophonics was related to earphone, headphone and maybe, hand-phone, and never thought that it has a place in audio hifi system where only two speakers are involved.
After about more than 1 hour spent in conversation with him on the topic in his comfortable living hall, we finally proceeded to his studio room. It was small but well-treated acoustically. Standing tall and huge in the centre of the room like two boards placed side by side were the electrostatic speakers, connected to the amp sitting on the floor behind. According to him, there was another system consisting of many small speakers on the wall all over the room ….
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He insisted that I sat in the middle of the sofa facing the electrostatic speakers about 8 feet away. The rear wall was about 3 to 4 feet behind me. The side walls were about 6 feet away from me. In the first few minutes after Chelvam had pressed a few buttons on his laptop, what I heard and the images it projected were astounding and unforgettable. I could hear the bird chirping behind me and the water flowing in front of me. I said to him, “I got it! I got it!”. Being shocked by what I had just heard, I asked him to stop as I wanted him to confirm that only the two speakers were active and no other speakers were active. Being not convinced, I suggested that he played some familiar songs and we settled on one of Norah Jones’. He was very confident and selected one and played. In the first few minutes, I could hear her soft voice in front and to be exact, in front and below my ear level. Suddenly, I heard the guitar was on my left (9 o’clock), not in front on the left (about 10 or 11 o’clock) which I would normally hear.
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This was my first encounter with his 3D audio system. Truly I was fascinated by his system and the unexpected and shocking experience, thanks to cross-talk cancellation done at the application level in his laptop before the audio signals reaching the DAC, pre-amp, amp and finally the speakers.
It will be a shame to end this article without questions. The following questions in my mind a few days after;
(1) What kinds of speakers are suitable for such 3D experience?
(2) How should be the placement and position of the speakers?
(3) What kinds of amp are suitable for such 3D experience?
(4) What are applications or hardware available in the market, which are suitable to cancel the crosstalk in order to create such 3D experience?
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Friday
Just a slight adjustment with the HF crosstalk cancellation point.
7th August 2020
Sunday
19th July 2020
Here is another comparison based on 2016 sound sample. In 2016 I was using Mytek and Classe. Currently, I am using Motu and CrownXLS. Compare this video with the original song. It is recorded with binaural mics so please use headphones.
Sunday
28th June 2020
I may have reached the end of quest for perfection. I don't think it is possible to add more surround ambiance speakers as my current CPU i9-9900K is already at 85% for the surround ambiance processing using SIR2. However, the basic crosstalk with two speakers requires no computer if you use MiniDsp. For browser based ARIA3D, it will work with any PC.
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Thanks to another Ambiophonics user, Javier who is far more advanced than me, we realized that the binaural recording doesn't work as intended to most people. My binaural recording doesn't sound correct to him and vice verse. I see no point of sharing more videos to convey the idea. It is the best upgrade for audiophiles but you have to implement them in your system for the true experience in 3D sound or you can always drop by my place or Ralph.s Ambiophonics institute to listen.
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I had the honor to listen to his AMBIOPHONICS set up...its just beyond this world...the clarity it gives you is simply amazing.
Every tiny bits was very precise...it can make u feel as though they were live band playing infrnt of u, an orchestra performing a classic masterpiece or even a bee or mosquito just besides your ear...you name it, he has it.
Bravo my dear bro Chelvam, wish u all the best & show the world what you can do."
Feedback by recent
visitors
Sunday
14th June 2020
Nothing much except a little refinement of the crosstalk cancellation and compared with the sound made a year ago. This is a binaural recording so please use headphones. The tonal balance may be different for some users depending on your pinnae shape. Just listen for soundstage and separation.
2020
2019
Saturday
2nd May 2020
Here is a sampler file of pre crosstalk cancelled sampler file. All you have to do is move the speakers closer to form 20 degrees listening angle and listen to the sampler file. You need to move the speakers closer (NOT TOE-IN angle!!!). This tracks work differently for some users. For some the effect is perceived at 30 degrees and may not work for some. Just make sure to turn off if you have some sort of DSP engaged in your system. The best is always to do your own crosstalk cancellation by using the various plugins or hardware so that it matches your speakers and room.
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Track list:-
A lover in Berlin - Keri Bremnes,
It ain't sunshine - Jose James,
Cold Outside - Lowen & Navarro,
Cry me a river - Susan Boyle,
Bach Toccata,
Magnificat -2L
4 formats included here.
24/96 file very large
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Avexw_l7DM5sgq569Ohmlb0QQT_ZFg
FLAC format
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Avexw_l7DM5sgq58Vzs4rf25XfiGKg
MP3 format. It will still sound better than the original file at 20 degrees.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Avexw_l7DM5sgq59nV0nIsCp49cKiQ
CD format (not tested)
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Avexw_l7DM5sgq5_5ARR6fBSIBfzOw
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Refer to the diagrams below for an easy way to setup the speakers. Another ratio you can use is divide the distance from listener to the mid point of the two speakers and speaker to speaker so that you get 2.8356 or just follow the instruction in these pictures below.
Tuesday
21st April 2020
I found one other system that was made with binaural microphones that can be used for apple to apple comparison. In this video, I used only the two Sound Lab speakers fed by Crown XLS from a Motu DAC. The virtual hall ambiance was turned off but the subwoofer was on. I could not get all the tracks that were used in the $1000000 system and therefor only two tracks from Apple music were used for my system. Recorded with Sennheiser Ambeo binuaral microphones. The other video was recorded by Soundman binuaral mics.
My system $20000
My system $20000
$1000000 System
$1000000 System
Imagine the sound of the $1000000 system with Ambiophonics!
Thursday
9th April 2020
Here are two videos made two years apart of the same system. Today, I am using 32.1 speakers system which consist of 2 speakers for stereo with Ambiophonics crosstalk and 30 speakers to create the virtual ambiance. Today's recording was made with Sennheiser Ambeo headset.
9 April 2020
4 March 2018
Friday
3rd April 2020
In this video you can compare the sound of the original track and crosstalk cancelled alternating every 15 seconds. To hear the effect, You need to use speakers placed at about 20 degrees. A laptop speakers can produce the effect. Ideally use your main system speakers but place them at 20 degrees. Something almost no audiophile would ever do.
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Anyway, if you have two systems, you can try to do side by side comparisons. Since this setting were made for system using Sound Lab speakers, the sound balance may not be exactly accurate for others. The purpose of this video is to demonstrate about the inherent distortion caused by interaural crosstalk by stereo playback using loudspeakers.
Friday
7th Feb 2020
With the help of speakers set at 60 degrees I managed to match the tonal accuracy. It is hard to use the headphones recording to match but so far listening to the main speakers and headphones gives a rough guidance to the tonal correctness for proper crosstalk cancellation. The video below was recorded on 7 Feb 2020.
Monday
20th January 2020
Taking the project to the next stage to see how well crosstalk cancellation can work for speakers placed 60 degrees. I am going to use Sharp speakers to work with the different crosstalk for conventional speakers placement.
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First demo of crosstalk cancelled with Sharp speakers. Compare them with my main system. More about this system can be found at www.ambiophonics.org
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Tuesday
31st December 2019
Finally manged to squeeze as many channels as possible for convolution with Reaper. Current setup is using i9-9900K CPU and already at 82% for the following video sound. I am not sure if further development is possible with Reaper as it seems reaching the limits. Project loading is now taking up to a minute to load even with the i9. Total speakers are 32.1.
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My own crosstalk cancellation has been perfected and works well across different kind of recording. It works well with panned stereo sound with correct soundstage.
Sunday
15th September 2019
I have further refined my own crosstalk cancellation method. The new XTC can also work with your standard stereo setup and I will be posting the files to be used with your existing files. Meanwhile, this is my latest and likely my final version of the XTC sample. I have also added a new video explaining the virtual concert hall concept using additional speakers. The two videos follows:-
Tuesday
10th September 2019
Here is an example of how the standard stereo playback could not retrieve the minute timing difference from a recording. In the new video, you can compare the original sound and sound with cross-talk cancellation for a typical 60 degrees speakers setup.
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If you would like to have your reference recording sample, please email me, and I will send you the files for you to conduct your the blind tests. You will perceive headphones like separation with this video. However, the best effect still requires a different cross-talk cancellation where I need your speakers' distance for perfection and binaural like 3D sound. The next samples and hopefully the final version will follow in mid-September 2019.
Ambiophonics method guarantees to improve any standard stereo playback to sound as natural and more detailed than any other audiophile stereo system. Here is a video where I recorded the best of 2019 KLIAV Show and compared them with my system. You can make A/B comparisons in them. Ideally, use headphones for listening since the recordings were made using Roland CS10-EM microphones.
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Edit (10 Sept 2019): I have found a more robust way to make the cancellation which sounds much better than in the video below. I will update the video below to reflect the newer version of the crosstalk where the tonal balance is far more accurate than all the rest of the videos. I would appreciate audiophiles and recording engineers would listen to the sample in their system and provide feedback for further improvement.
The video below will be replaced with my latest XTC soon.......(edit: 10/9/2019)
Sounstage! Review of Ambiophonics Institute's founder Ralph Glasgal's system.
I have also heard numerous high-end, multichannel systems, all of which couldn’t hold a candle to what we heard.- Howard Kneller (https://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/blogging-on-audio/201-howard-kneller/858-a-day-with-ralph-glasgal-founder-of-the-ambiophonics-institute)
Visitors' impression on my system.
TLKoo
Kong See Chee
Kind words of Sharil who is also a reviewer of audio equipment. Unfortunately, it did not get into one of his audio sites. Here is one mini review of system by one of the the few reviewers in my country. You may also find others comments in the forum.
Quoting verbatim "After a a few months of chit chat over Whatsapp, I finally found time to visit STC's den to experience first hand what ambiophonics sounds like. Spent about 3 hours or so experiencing various musical genre and also a few 'settings'.Ir was 3 dimensional experience where music just envelopes around you in a very reliastic manner. Layer bu layer was of the music was exposed in such detail. The drum rolls on track like Black Magic Woman was presented in a manner that I could actually imagine how the drum set was configured. The soundstage was full but at the same time, the vocal was set smack in the middle and did not loose any prowesness. Bass however, was little shy to my preference. It was extended and not thud thumping bass. But I can do with a little bit more of a dive in the lower frequency.I can see why (but I dont understand why) audiophiles can reject this ambiophonics idea but experience it and let your emotion or hearing decide it. I certainly enjoyed it and if I ever have my own hifi room back, I may look into ambiophonics.Thanks STC for the demo and also the murtabak kambing hehehe.
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Many thanks to STC for the warm hospitality, it was truly an evening which had me intimately embraced by virtue of the achievements of his Ambiophonics!
I couldn't visualise the abilities of such setup with speakers apart for <2feet but true enough, I have been convinced of being transported directly to the music venue be it studio recording or live. In very a quick manner, I may humbly opine that my stereophonics (as I have barely achieved) could churn out/reproduce imaging, soundstaging and even soundscape extension into listening room to mislead me to feel that I have been transported to the music venue while ambiophonics goes straight to have directly sent me to the music venue!!! Being last night a joyous session with few long known friends (no one is old though long known), it wasn't conducive for knowing more about ambiophonics let alone music appreciation. Mr STC, I will knock at your doorstep again and I assume the invitation without any right of refusal huh!
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Hi-fi is fun. Why else are we in it? After hearing how Mr. Koo enthused over Mr. Chelvam's set-up, I decided to check it out. Ambiophonic did deliver a convincing portrayal of musical reality. This is not to be confused with live music but it certainly can thrill. Impressive. I don't know whether you'll ever get used to it. You not only will amaze yourself, but will be musically rewarded. The ambiophonic player is in public domain. My suggestion is simply to audition it. Now I can relate to Koo's enthusiastic endorsement. Let me not forget to thank Mr. Chelvam also. Ambiophonic is fun. Aren't we supposed to have fun?
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I had a listen to STC's ambiophonics recently. Have to say that it was very, very impressive. The soundstage, the depht were amazing. Need to learn more on this. Would recommend it to everyone to experience. Salute you STC!
Syadi
Pick your favourite classical recording, place your speakers closer so that it is around 20 degrees or less. Place a divider in between the speaker extending all the way to your face. It is easier to experiment this with small speakers with PC. In my case, I was using a mattress with my main system during my early experimentation. I knew about Ambio in early 2000s but did not fully implemented them because being a a hardcore audiophile, I simply refused to use any form of DSP. It was only in 2011, after attempting everything to recreate lifelike playback with stereo, I reconsidered the ambiophonics DSP . It was a long lonely journey. I stumbled a lot and alone in this attempt. Ralph Glasgal was always there to guide for more than 6 years with hundreds if not thousands of email exchanges between us. Even then, the transition wasn't easy as I erred in the proper method of the implementation.
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There are two types of recordings that we are familiar with. One is the regular stereo, and the other one is the binaural recordings where all the localization cues are captured in the recordings. Unfortunately, binaural recordings can only be heard with headphones to perceive the full effect of natural sound. A binaural recording will not reproduce the localization cue correctly when played over the loudspeakers and will sound just like ordinary stereo recordings due to crosstalk. In order to retrieve the localization cues that already have been embedded in the recordings, the crosstalk error needs to be cancelled. The easiest way to understand the principle behind the crosstalk cancellation is prevent the sound from the left/right speaker reaching the right/left ear. AND, the easiest way to experiment this effect is to put a divider between the speakers reaching right up to your face. The 3D sound will emerge when you could isolate the opposing speakers sound reaching the ear.
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This is also the reason why binaural recordings can work with headphones only. I use Ambiophonics method to retrieve the hidden cues in stereo recordings so that they would sound like binaural recordings when played over the loudspeakers. The sound-stage will increase to about 140 degrees or even more. You will hear more depth, separation, and natural sound. There is a research centre called Ambiophonics Institute where you can experience the 3D sound from the ordinary stereo recordings. It is open to public and serves as a research centre for academicians and researchers. This can be implemented for free or with simple plugins that are available under various names sold by third parties under different names. You may find more information at Ambiophonics website.
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Ambiophonics method is a true 3 Dimensional sound with existing stereo sound. None of the videos here represent the actual 3D sound as all true ordinary stereo setup cannot reproduce the effect. Just like it is impossible to represent 3D TV image with 2D TV. Experiment real 3D sound to understand the difference between stereo and Ambiophonics. Ideally, use headphones to listen to my videos. The best way to experiment 3D sound is to implement them in your system. If you are keen to learn more, I will send you a preprocessed music that you can play in your main system. The only catch is - the speakers should be moved about 2/3 closer to each other so that it will form a 20-degree triangle. It may be mind-boggling to you that narrower speakers spread can produce a 140 degrees soundstage but that 's the real stage in a typical classical recordings that no stereo system could reproduce accurately.
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